Groups B and B3 represents more than 30 members in two obvious groups. Members of both groups are in the R1b1b2 haplogroup (R-P310) confirmed by SNP test on Kits #28407 in Group B and Kits #11391 and 91188 in Group B3. Also the non Meek surnames of Thomas and Mock have the same SNPs test results. These members can be tied together by all having the same unique values in six markers. In addition, there are five markers which allow us to separate Group B from B3. Defining markers are those markers with allele values different from the R1b modal values which are published in scientific papers. With one exception most or all of the members of Groups B and B3 share the same non modal value for the defining markers. Five of the six defining markers occur in 5% or less of the world wide R1b1 population. Any one else matching Group B on these markers is almost certainly related. The only question is how long ago the connection occurred. It is noted that while there are 3 cases where we have two descendants for a single ancestor most of the members of Group B do not have a provable paper trail to connect the ancestors represented in Group B to a common ancestor or to connect Groups B & B3 to their common ancestor. Note: Members should compare their results to the group modal values. Some members have more mutations than is typical and these mutations appear to be more recent in time. This does negated the paper trail or diminish the connection.
| Name | R1b | Both | B | B-3 | %R1b | Note |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| DYS 392 | 13 | 12 | (6/10%) | Very uncommon value | ||
| DYS 389-1 | 13 | 13 | 14 | (10%) | Sub-group 3 | |
| DYS 389-2 | 29 | 28 | (5%) | Uncommon value | ||
| DYS 458 | 17 | 15 | (2%) | Uncommon value | ||
| DYS 464b | 15 | 14 | (1%) | Uncommon value | ||
| DYS 576 | 18 | 19 | 20 (4%) | Sub-group 1 | ||
| DYS 570 | 17 | ? | 18 | (17%) | Sub-group 3 | |
| CDY A | 37 | ? | 36 | (17%) | CDY is unstable marker | |
| CDY B | 38 | ? | 37 (25%) | Sub-group 1 | ||
| DYS 442 | 12 | 10 | (1%) | Uncommon value | ||
| DYS 438 | 12 | 13 | (3%) | Uncommon value |
Column 1 is the marker name. Column 2 is the R1b modal value. Column 3 is the Group B modal value. Column 4 is Sub-group 1 markers which are different from Sub-group 3. Column 5 is Sub-group 3 markers which are different from Sub-group 1. Column 6 is the percent of the R1b population with the group value.
DYS439=13 and DYS447=26 also deviate from the R1b1 modal values but are not so uncommon. Both markers appear to be prone to mutation for this group and with one exception do not appear to be significant in terms of identifying sub-groups or branches of the family.
DYS389-1 and DYS389-2 are odd markers. DYS389-2 is really DYS389-2 minus DYS389-1. So the R1b modal values might be expressed 13-16. Therefore both sub-groups have a non modal 15 for DYS389-2 and Sub-group 3 has a non modal 14 in DYS389-1.
CDY is a difficult marker to evaluate because of its variability. However, there appears to be a clear difference between sub-groups 1 and 3.
Ancestors - Sub-group 1 - SW PA Group
This sub-group is comprised of men who lived in S. W. Pennsylvania in the 1780's.
Nathaniel, Basil and Samuel have historically been considered brothers of the men in Group A
which we know now not to be true.
This sub-group is defined by DYS576=20 and CDY=37, 37.
Isaac Meek born 1746
Son: Joshua Meek born 1773.
- Kit #107485
Basil Meek born 1763
Son: Henry B. Meek born 1804.
- Kit #4801
Son: Daniel Meek born 1799.
- Kit #39903
Nathaniel Meek born @ 1740
Son: Samuel Meek born 1784 (2 sons)
- Kit #29239 and Kit #31331
Samuel Meek born 1732
Son: William Meek born 1755
- Kit #82503
David Meek born 1794
undocumented grandson of Samuel born 1732
- Kit #17063
Samuel Meek born 1781
Son: George W. Meek born 1825.
- Kit #74844
Elisha Meek born 1764
Son: John Meek born 1791
- Kit #30577
Ancestors - Sub-group 1 - Ohio/Indiana Group
Henry H. Meek born 1834 Indiana
Son: Pylander Meek born 1876 - Kit #23047
Son: Milo Meek - Kit #35381
Jonathan Meek born 1800 Virginia
Son: Thomas Meek born 1826 Ohio - Kit #93370
Ancestors - Sub-group 1 - Maryland Group
This sub-group may have a defining marker in DYS570=18. DYS576 is inconclusive.
George B. Meek born 1785 VA. He married Cathren Everly in Pulaska, TN.
Son: John Everly Meek born 1812 VA.
- Kit #137212
William Meeks born 1824 Maryland
Son: Thomas R. Meeks
- Kit #71607
John W. Meek born 1815 Maryland
Son: Howard Meek
- Kit #30996
Ancestors - Sub-group 2 - Tennessee Group
Jeremiah Meek born between1771-1780
Son: Lewis Meek born 1818
- Kit #28407
The following are defined by DYS439=14 and DYS576=19
Jacob Meek born 1760
Son: Jeremiah Meek born 1788
- Kit #28407, 153210
Son: Henry Meek born 1806
- Kit #180060
John T. Meek born 1839
Son: Benjamin Meek
- Kit #38931
Wesley Meek born 1812 TN
Son: Thomas J. Meek born 1841 MS.
- Kit #109937
Ancestors - Sub-group 9 - Different surnames
William Smith resided Richmond Co, VA.
Son: David Smith born 1719.
- Kit #62316
Joseph Gillespie born 1853 Newfoundland
Son: son Gillespie
- Kit #45959
George Thomas No Info
Son: son Thomas
- Kit #111124
Daniel Mock born about 1820.
Son: William H. Mock was born about 1841.
- Kit #110903
Sub-group 1
This article discusses the structure of the Meek families identified as Group B in the Meek/Meeks DNA project.
Group B is a large complex group. It is divided into two major sub-groups by DNA analysis. It is impossible to know for sure but the two sub-groups appear to have developed a different DNA profile before the year 1500. Since they carry the same surname it is assumed that the split came after the introduction of surnames in England in the 1200’s. The two sub-groups have been given arbitrary names of Group B and Group B3. Group B3 involves the descendants of John Meeks born about 1700 who lived in Pitt Co., NC and a separate family that lived in Scotland. It will be discussed separately.
The main Group B is the largest group in the DNA project and represents eight known Revolutionary era ancestors born before 1800 as well as a number of more recent ancestors who have not been connected further back in time. The list of early ancestors closely match a portion of the list of men named in the 1902 book by H. B. Meek as sons of Jacob Meek born 1698 in Lincolnshire, England. This story was expanded by Carleton Meek in his 1962 book. However, other researchers, notably Joseph L. Meek, claimed that the same set of sons belonged to Jacob Meek born 1717 the son of Guy Meek. Unfortunately the DNA project has proven that the total list of sons came from at least three unrelated Meek family. Therefore there is no reliable source as to how the Group B ancestors were related or who their father(s) may have been. The is no reliable information on where they came from. Readers should be very cautious with any source that claims to know this information. See the article The Progenitor Myth.
When H. B. Meek wrote his book he said that he obtained some information from his uncle Basil DuValle Meek born 1828. Basil was a grandson of Basil Meek born about 1763, one of the supposed sons of Jacob Meek. One might assume that H. B. Meek had some reliable information about Basil Meek born 1763. He only provided enough information about the other 12 sons of Jacob Meek to identify three of them. It is through Carleton Meek that we can connect any of these men to actual names found in official records. Carleton Meek used the information from H. B. Meek and expanded on it. Unfortunately he started with bad information.
Eight of those men named as sons of Jacob Meek lived in S.W. Pennsylvania. In Washington Co., PA there was Isaac, Samuel, Nathaniel and Basil born 1763. Four men said to be their brothers lived in Allegheny Co., PA. They were Jeremiah, Joshua, John and Jacob. DNA proved that the men in Allegheny County were totally unrelated to the men in Washington County. That raises the question why did H. B. Meek and Carleton Meek think that were brothers?
The obvious answer is that did not know how to do genealogy. They simply threw all the Meeks in the same pot and guessed at their relationship. Unfortunately they published books and a couple of generations of genealogists have now been misled by their work.
Also related to the men in Allegheny County was Basil Meek born 1740 who also lived in Allegheny County for a short period of time. It does not appear that H. B. Meek or Carleton Meek even knew about this man although he was fairly well documented in official records. At the same time there is no evidence that Basil Meek born 1763 was in S. W. Pennsylvania.
There were unidentified men named Jeremiah Meek and Jacob Meek who made a single appears in the records. They appeared in the 1783 tax list of Washington County. There is growing reason to believe that these men went to Pulaski Co., KY with Nathaniel and Basil born 1763. It is also known now that there were men named Jeremiah and Jacob Meek in Tennessee who were connected to the men in Washington County by DNA.
We do not know what information H. B. Meek had but it is possible he had a valid list of related ancestors living in Washington Co., PA that formed the basis of his 13 sons of Jacob Meek. It is also possible that he had a valid reason to believe the progenitor of the family was named Jacob Meek. We do not have DNA from a proven descendant of Jacob, son of Guy Meek, or Jacob, son of Adam Meek.
What we know for sure from DNA is that all of the following men shared a common ancestor. Following are the ancestors born before 1800 identified in Group B.
Washington Co., PA 1774-1800
Samuel Meek b: 1732
Isaac Meek b: 1746
Nathaniel Meek
Basil Meek b: 1763
Elisha Meek b: 1765 (not listed by H. B. Meek)
Tennessee/Arkansas 1800>
Jeremiah Meek b: 1771 to 1779
Slightly different DNA Profile
Tennessee/Arkansas 1800>
Jacob Meek b: 1760
Born after 1800
John T. Meek b: >1800
Wesley W. Meek b: 1812
Slightly different DNA Profile
Maryland connection
George Meek b: 1785 MD
Born after 1800
John W. Meeks b: 1815
William Meek b: 1824
It is important to remember that this is incomplete data. Those people who have been DNA tested may not be a representative sample of the family as a whole. It is also not known if we have a complete list of early U. S. ancestors from genealogy. Based on the earliest known date of birth from the list here the common ancestor had to have been born before 1715 and probably earlier. We know nothing about that person from DNA and have been unable to connect to a proven ancestor through genealogy.
The relationship between any of the ancestors listed here in unknown. There is much genealogical work to do to find a connection between some or all of these ancestors. The search for the progenitor is a different matter. One possible interpretation of this data is that there was a large extended family that migrated to different parts of the United States. Where that migration started is unknown. One possibility is that the progenitor lived in the United States. The other possibility is that different groups of family members immigrated to the United States separately. The earliest record of any of these ancestors is about 1775 based on deed records for Samuel Meek.
Ancestors - Sub-group 3
Members of this sub-group are tied together by the unique value in the following markers.
They are DYS 389 1=14 DYS 570=18 and CDY=36, 38.
Group B3a - (West Virginia Group)
Thomas Meeks born 1768
Son: Abraham W. Meeks born 1819 Monongalia Co., VA - Kit #91188Group B3b - (Pitt Co., NC Group)
This sub-group comprises descendants of John Meeks who resided in Pitt Co., NC.
John Meeks born 1700
Son: Francis Meeks born 1747 (3 sons) - Kit #27995, Kit #52441, Kit #28172 and Kit #49070
Son: John Meeks born 1740 - Kit #11391Oliver Smith born 1862 South Carolina
Son: Martin Smith born 1890 - Kit #N23769
Group B3 is clearly a distinct and separate branch of the Group B family.
It is unclear how Herb's ancestor Thomas Meeks is connected to the
remainder of Group B3. He could be a descendant of John Meeks born 1700, although there is
no proof of that.
He could be a descendant of a separate branch of John Meeks' family, such as a brother
or uncle.
The remainder of Group B3 represents members who can trace their family back to John Meeks born about 1700 and who lived in Pitt Co., NC after 1750. There is no known connection between John Meeks and the other ancestors in Group B. The DNA results show that members of this group are tied together and separated from the other subgroups by three markers. While the values in these markers are not all that unique to the R1b population in general they do distinguish this subgroup from the others. The fact that there are three defining markers for this group as well as a two defining marker for the Group B (DYS 576 and CDYb) is significant. These five markers indicate a considerable distance between the Pitt County group and the rest of Group B.
The DNA results suggest that the common ancestor for this group and Group B was probably born in the late 1400’s or early 1500’s.
We do not know when the ancestors migrated to America or if he came from the same place as the other ancestors in Group B. There is some indication that he immigrated to Maryland and then North Carolina. However, this has not been proven yet.
The Smith ancestor may or may not be related to the Meeks family. Not only does the Smith member match the defining markers for Group B he has a genetic distance of one from the Group B3 modal values and matches on DYS 389-1=14. While it is possible that the Smith markers mutated independently from the Meeks family the unique values in key markers cannot be ignored. Additional research is required.